Poke Him with a Fork

Given the circumstances I don’t see how Barack Obama could have performed better in his interview with Major Garrett on Fox News distancing himself from the Reverend Jeremiah Wright and his inflammatory rhetoric.   Obama was poised, respectful, and graceful.   Handling difficult questions, he exhibited a level of decorum appropriate for a presidential candidate.   It was quite a contrast to the indignance and sarcasm generally exhibited by that other Democratic candidate.

Even though it is hard to believe he didn’t know of the goings on at Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, having attended services since the early nineties, Barack Obama is one of those guys you can’t help but like.   He’s polished, he’s warm, and he is amiable.   In spite of the fact I disagree with just about every political policy he embraces I do think it would be healthy to see our nation elect a black man for president.   Perhaps then we could put this whole racial thing behind us.   Unfortunately, that will not be the case.   If anything, Obama’s coronation would only exacerbate our ethnic divides and it is precisely that reason his coronation will not take place.

Obama’s worst adversaries are not his detractors, they are his supporters.   It wasn’t so amazing to watch the Reverend Jeremiah Wright make the ridiculous statements that we killed 70,000 people in Hiroshima and hence deserved 9/11, or that America invented the HIV virus to kill people of color, or even that we should not be known as the U S of A but as the U S of KKK A, the most amazing thing was to watch hundreds in the congregation applaud and laugh and support this seditious and hateful rhetoric.

Follow up that display by watching O’Reilly interview two black women who would profess the good Reverend’s words to be completely reasonable and one finds cause to indulge a serious head scratch (even O’Reilly was lost for words and raised his hand to brow in disbelief when one of the ladies confirmed his query that Wright’s rhetoric was completely sensible).   Going further to see these women proclaim that White America cannot understand the black experience in racist America nor understand what the Black Church is all about, it makes it pretty tough for some dumb redneck working in a machine shop review the spectacle and think, I think I’ll vote for their guy!

Despite the relentless accusations calling white Americans racist, Barack Obama would not be where he is without a significant white vote.   If Caucasian Americans were ever to profess their support of a white candidate because of his color the left’s impending harangue would be deafening, and yet when Mississippi’s black vote went to Obama by 92% nary was there any bit of dissent.   The last politician I know of to get 92% of the vote was Saddam Hussein, and look what happened to him!

Both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama need white males to vote for them if they expect to win.

For Hillary, that leaves neo-liberal men with an identity crisis and youngsters old enough to vote but incapable of comprehending what their vote does.   No self-respecting man who has any experience with women what-so-ever is going to indenture himself voluntarily to four years of the nanny-state condescending and sanctimonious bull which is Hillary’s stock in trade.  

As for Obama, I cannot see how he can expect to get any kind of majority among white America when his most fervent supporters hate white America.  

If my only choice for President was Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton, I’d take Obama.   Even though he’s further left than Clinton  I do like him personally, and the prospect of hearing Hillary’s cackle for the next four years is more than I can imagine.   (Although, I would enjoy the theatrical entertainment we’d all be privy when the first man resurrects operation of his mini-assault rifle where young interns are concerned.)

Character and virtue do matter for something and while Obama does have some questionable skeletons in his closet, dealing with shady characters from the Weather Underground and managing to purchase property in the most prestigious part of Chicago (below market from another leery acquaintance indicted for promoting kick backs from government deals), his character is still more commendable than that possessed by anyone named Clinton.

Barack Obama will do very nicely for himself as a politician who represents a narrow and prejudiced group, he’ll make lots of money and probably enjoy a long life in public service, but he will never be President of the United States; that job requires he represent all Americans, not just the angry black ones.

For president, he’s done.

 

Update:  Obama’s indictment of Imus over remarks which got him fired (and were far less incendiary than  what Reverend Wright has preached) highlight a blatant hypocrisy.   Seems the good Senator from Illinois has two standards, one for white people and one entirely different measure for black people.  

Obama’s not just done, he’s well done, over well, double done, fried to a crisp!

 

Copyright 2008 Jim Pontillo    

77 thoughts on “Poke Him with a Fork

  1. I don’t think he’s done, but he’s definitely lost a lot of his luster because of this. Wright is an ass and anybody with any common sense would never associate with anyone like him. Personally, I feel the same way about all organized religion. In 2008 it’s frightening to see what people will still believe.

  2. Obama never endorsed anti-white racism, so uh I don’t see how any of this is relevant? It’s not hypocrisy to call someone out on something and then not do that thing you called them out on.

  3. What did Crumb say????

    Scratching my head?!

    Crumb’s not just done, he’s well done, over well, double done, fried CANADIAN bacon!

  4. “Obama’s indictment of Imus over remarks which got him fired (and were far less incendiary than what Reverend Wright has preached) highlight a blatant hypocrisy.”

    This is what I’m talking about. Obama isn’t the one making the incendiary remarks. You’re trying to present Obama as a man with a very narrow support base, and that he somehow only represents black Chicago radicals, despite the fact that the vast majority of Americans, American politicians, and by extension his supporters are white.

  5. Ya know, you had me when you said the part about the redneck machinist. Actually, i am a “redneck Tool and Die Maker/Machinist”, but I can tell you now, I will not soon forget the sweeping “assault weapons” bans instituted by the Clinton’s. Any government that is afraid of its’ citizens being armed is a government that is probably doing something wrong. In any case, I heard Obamas’ address the other day on the radio. As for speakers, he can sell ice trays to Eskimos. He’s just that slick! Hillary makes me sick with her lying past and crocodile tears. She has all those NOW cows rolling in the aisles. John McCain has got to be the biggest joke I have yet to see for a real conservative choice. Ron Paul is THE ONLY person that I have seen that actually told people the truth, but there are truths that Americans just obviously are not ready to face. This election has not given Conservatives any real decent choice and I am very disappointed.

  6. This is a very well written article. I agree Obama is finished.

    We are left with the other Liberal McCain. I guess he is the best of the three, considering we don’t have a Conservative running for office.

    Carol

  7. The neocons have already lost this election. Looks like they’ll have to make do with smearing Obama as a racist so Hillary gets the nomination and McCain waltzes into the White House. Sadly for them they won’t get to build on the authoritarian police state they began building with the Patriot Act.

    Still, at least America will get a president who can actually speak standard English and isn’t an absolute embarassment this time which is an improvement I suppose…..

  8. Neoconservatism
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    “Neoconservatism is a political philosophy that emerged in the United States from the rejection of social liberalism and the New Left counterculture of the 1960s. It influenced the Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, and the George W. Bush presidential administrations, representing a realignment in American politics, and the defection of a certain segment of liberals to the right side of the political spectrum.[1] Neoconservatism emphasizes foreign policy as paramount responsibility of government, seeing the need for the U.S. acting as the world’s sole superpower as indispensable to establishing and maintaining global order.[2]”

  9. [edit] Neoconservative policies
    Irving Kristol, the “god-father” and one of the founders of neoconservatism, stated five basic policies of neoconservatism that distinguish it from other “movements” or “persuasions”[8]. These policies, he claimed, “result in popular Republican presidencies”:
    Taxes and Federal Budget: “Cutting tax rates in order to stimulate steady economic growth. This policy was not invented by neocons, and it was not the particularities of tax cuts that interested them, but rather the steady focus on economic growth.” In Kristol’s view, neocons are and should be less concerned about balancing fiscal budgets than traditional conservatives: “One sometimes must shoulder budgetary deficits as the cost (temporary, one hopes) of pursuing economic growth.”[8] Size of Government: Kristol distinguishes between Neoconservatives and the call of traditional conservatives for smaller government. “Neocons do not feel … alarm or anxiety about the growth of the state in the past century, seeing it as natural, indeed inevitable.”[8] Traditional Moral Values: “The steady decline in our democratic culture, sinking to new levels of vulgarity, does unite neocons with traditional conservatives”. Here Kristol distinguishes between traditional conservatives and libertarian conservatives. He cites the shared interest of Neocons and Religious Conservatives in using the government to enforce morality: “Since the Republican party now has a substantial base among the religious, this gives neocons a certain influence and even power.”[8] Expansionist Foreign Policy: “Statesmen should … distinguish friends from enemies.” And according to Kristol, “with power come responsibilities … if you have the kind of power we now have, either you will find opportunities to use it, or the world will discover them for you.”[8]
    National Interest: “the United States of today, inevitably … [will] feel obliged to defend … a democratic nation under attack from nondemocratic forces …

  10. I am an old Conservative and I am in my 8th Decade.

    I don’t think any of the Candidates for President are examples of what this nation should produce.

    I first voted for Eisenhower and I thought he did a commendable job.

    I was a member of the US Army when it was desegregated. Our training platoon was the one selected to inherit about 30 draftees from Georgia. They were not teenagers but they were certainly immature.

    We had a Black Corporal, who had been made an acting Drill Sergeant and Platoon Leader. All he could think and talk about was SEX.

    He would cause our anger while we were standing in formation, by telling us what he was going to do that day while we were in the field.

    Know what it was? He was going over to the Company Commander’s Quarters and seduce his wife. FAT CHANCE!

    It has been my observation that these people have not reacted in a positive way by being emancipated. They continue to denigrate the very
    humans who attempt to create a freer nation.

    Obama speaks of unity and demonstrates he is in favor of Black Superiority by not disavowing Rev.
    Wright and the Church that represents a dissociation of the Races.

  11. Matt,
    Please explain which “authoritarian police state” you are living in? Please share with us which rights you have had taken away, or how you have been violated. Lets go a little farther, please share with us those same concerns with any one you know or have heard of.

    This is from the “Our Charter” page of this website:
    “Liberalism has destroyed our school system. Even though we spend billions on education, most Americans don’t have the critical thinking skills necessary to tell fact from fiction and they take media reports and stories for face value embracing lies and policies which are devastating
    our nation.”
    Matt, you are a perfect kool-aid drinking example of this.
    I for one think the Patriot Act was watered down too far with the recent changes in it’s legislation.

  12. Hey Crumb,
    I would like to see how you are going to explain away Obama’s “typical white” statement about his own grandmother. Is there a typical white person, or black person fot hat matter? I think not.
    Rush is right (again). I don’t think the American people know who Obama really is, YET.
    The problam is, and I believe Jim eluded to this, there is a double standard on dealing with race in this country. There is no way John McCain, or any other “white man” for that matter could get away with saying “typical black man” in any context what so ever without being ostracized, or worse.

  13. I would have thought people on here would have some limited knowledge of the ideology they align themselves with, or at least more than the rather derelict knowledge they demonstrate on most other ideologies.

    Yuri Andropov provides a good summary below of the neoconservative ideology. For a real life example look no further than the majority of policy advisors in the White House at the moment.

    “Please explain which “authoritarian police state” you are living in?”

    America isn’t an authoritarian police state…and it won’t become one now that Bush is leaving office. However, the Patriot Act allows officials to scan anyone’s activities without consent and arrest and detain people without trial. For traditional Republicans, this would be an outrage and if these aren’t infringements on personal liberty and the beginning of a police state I don’t know what is.

    PS. Please no one reply with the old worn ‘WE ARE AT WAR’ rhetoric. It really is old and it is a sign of victory for the terrorists that this legislation has been passed.

  14. Matt,
    I’ll ask you again.
    Please provide a list of names of peole that have had officials scan their activities without consent and arrest and detain people without trial.
    As far as Preisident Bush goes, I don’t agree with everything he does, or has done. And yes, he and his administration have made mistakes in the war against the terrorists. There are mistakes made in all wars. BUT, I shutter to think what Gore or Kerry would have done, more specifically not done, in his place. Probably lob a few cruise missles at the wrong buildings and call it a day.

  15. Jetff,

    What’s wrong with you, you know bombing the wrong building is O.K. when a Democrat is doing it. And global warming is O.K. when Gore is flying his jet around. And higher taxes are O.K. even though the 800 millionaire Kerry only pays about 15%, and raping women is O.K. if your name is Bill Clinton.

    Your so silly.

  16. Matt,
    Now I have to address your statements about President Bush. You call him an “absolute embarassment”. Well to bring back the ridiculous statments made by Ingle and Crumb in the past regarding education, President Bush does have an Ivy League education so in my mind the makes quite intelligent.
    AND, what would you call Pelosi and Reid. God sends? They are both true idiots by any definition. I do beleive the polls show Americans are more disapointed with the congress than with the president. And how about Gore, with his little production on global warming that has more holes in it than swiss cheese. But he sure is making a killing on the “Retard Credits”.

  17. Jetff

    I would love to hear a reply to my “ridiculous statements” from the other post. I guess you don’t have a reply. That’s because the conservative argument falls apart when it encounters real life.

  18. P.S.

    I DO think Bush is VERY smart. So is Carl Rove. The thing is though, their smart like Stalin and Hitler.

  19. David,

    Stalin was a communist.

    Hitler was a socialist.

    They both endeavored to expand the government power, and subjugate individual liberties.

    You can hate Bush all you want for his so called assault on liberty (Patriot Act?), but this assault is so much less egregious than those draconian plans:

    on taxing oil (Jimmy Carter tried and failed)

    on controlling CO2 (not even a pollutant, but still driving American manufacturers offshore)

    on health care (you think service and price is bad now—just wait)

    on taxing income (want to see a really bad economy; I am already pissed I pay too much. I will employ fewer people and work less if the government takes even more, and most small business owners think like I do)

    that Democrats want to institute.

    Bush is horrible. Kerry, Gore, Obama, and Clintons are all worse, compared to them McCain’s looking pretty good right now.

    You can choose shitty, or really shitty.

  20. Sorry Sake,

    I was a dumbass again. My bad.

    And Kool-Aid (I mean Matt), I’m still waiting to hear about all the people being violated by the Patriot Act, PLEASE enlighten me so I can join in your Bush hatred syndrome.
    What I would like to know is what are all these Bush haters going to do when he rides off into the sunset. I think we are getting a inkling of that now, they’re going to eat their own. They should do us all a favor start with Pelosi and Reid, and kick in the mister tax everyone until they have nothing left Charlie Rangle for dessert. I DO hate that guy.

  21. “I am already pissed I pay too much. I will employ fewer people and work less if the government takes even more, and most small business owners think like I do” You respond to tax increases by decreasing your earning power?

  22. Here are some conservative arguments for you Ingle.

    Liberals are in favor of killing innocent babies that do have rights, as we are all born with those rights in this countrty. But try to stop coporal punishment to people that have lost those rights for doing very bad things. Liberals should be in favor of the death penalty, instead of paying for these criminals to spend their life behind bars we could take that money and feed the poor.

    The liberals in my state institued a “cigarrette tax” supposedly to get people to stop smoking. Then rely on that tax money as part of the state operating budget. Well if people quit smoking where are the taxes coming from? Oh yah, then they complain that people are crossing state lines to get cheaper smokes. Well DAH! So now we have to create laws to penelaize people for doing that.

    The liberals in my state can’t balance the budget based on reality but use funny math to do it. Then when the inevitable shortfall comes they have to create new taxes or raid other funds to fill the holes. Like taking money from the transportation fund. Yah that’s real good idea because now they can’t fix the pot holes that are literally taking the front ends out of vehicles. They’ve also taken money to fill said shortfalls from a fund created by doctors to help fight law suits. That wasn’t even the state’s money. That’s called theft.

    How about taxing and regulating corporations to the point they are leaving the state in droves. The liberals haven’t figured out that without corporations there are no jobs. I’ll refer this one to Jim.

    How about multiple attacks on military recruiting centers by the anti-war/anti military cowards. Yah, lets attack the very people that give you the right to say and do pretty much anything you want. Yah, that makes sense!

    continued on the next post

  23. Back to the state tax burden. Now the libs in my state want to make a new hospital “assessement”. They can’t even call it a tax anymore. This will be a pass throught tax so the hospitals can get more federal matching funds. They claim the general populous won’t see the tax. Yah right. Does any one else see the irony on this? As with almost all corporate taxes, THEY ARE passed on to the customers. In this case SICK PEOPLE! The truth is it will cost us more state AND federal taxes.

    Here is a liberal and race issue. We have a wonderful city alderman in our state that actually slashed tires of mini vans being used to transport the elderly on election day. Yup, at a republican registration cenetr. No prosecution. Although he is in now jail for other transgretions. This guy is actually runnnig for re-election and lone of the leaders in his campaign. This guy is a black far left rascist. He’s a criminal behind bars, and they are most likely going to re-elect him.

    We’ve been trying to pass voter ID legislation for years in this state. Polls show seventy percent or more want voter ID in this state, but the liberal controlled senate just tabled the vote on a state wide refferendum to put it to the people. Their argument? Voter ID will diefranchise SOME voters. BUT then they disenfranchise the whole state.

    And get this, right before that happened there was a voter fraud task force report that had stated because of the rampant discrepencies in the last two elections (like having more votes counted than eligible voters, college students voting more than once, dead people voting, felons voting, etc… – go figure all democrats) we should initiate a voter ID program. Nooooo, that would be too honest.

    I could go on for hours, but then I’m just preaching to the choir.

  24. jetff

    If you cared to learn anything about the Republican tradition you would realise that the Patriot Act decreases everyone’s liberty purely by the fact that it subjects everyone to the possibility of arbitrary, unrestrained power. So everyone in the US has had their liberty constrained by the Patriot Act, whether they have been arrested under it or not.

    And George Bush is, indeed, an embarrassment. Say what you like about Gore but at least he can string a sentence together that sounds somewhat statesman-like rather than Bush who sounds at best like his speeches were written by an illiterate, gun-wielding hillbilly.

  25. I don’t think the troops in Iraq are fighting or American liberty, but what do I know, apparently I’m a coward for opposing a war that’s just making things worse.

  26. Matt,

    You want to talk reality or fantasy? Bush had better grades at Yale than Kerry, so he is not eloquent, that doesn’t make him dumb.

    Reagan was one of the best speakers and story tellers the Presidency has ever seen and the left said he was dumb.

    “All Republicans are dumb.” O.K. we got it already.

    “…Patriot Act decreases everyone’s liberty purely by the fact that it subjects everyone to the possibility of arbitrary, unrestrained power…”

    News flash, our government is comprised of Bureaucrats.

    You don’t know about unrestrained power until you have tried to run a business and been arbitrarily charged or fined for washing your car in the drive, or purchased 5 gallons of kerosene prompting the fire department to inspect your business, or install a simple piece of equipment like an air compressor and suddenly find yourself needing a permit from the city, etc., etc., etc.

    You have no idea.

    How about 45% tax on income–you don’t consider that arbitrary, unrestrained power? I already know your reply. I can afford it!

    Your views are subjective and duplicitous, you’ve got no problem with government power when wealth and business is under assault, but when some unemployed loser raises suspicion for buying an inordinate amount of fertilizer you want to indict the government for using arbitrary and unrestrained power.

    Please!

  27. Most of those measures are for your security, I thought you’d appreciate the government looking out for your safety?

  28. Well said Jim, on all counts.

    Hey Kool-Aid, I guess I missed being constrained by the Patriot Act. But then I do have to remove my shoes when traveling through airports, what an inconvenience. Meanwhile the little old lady next in line gets a strip search while the 20 something middle eastern kid behind her walks right through. That must be the “arbitrary unrestrained power” you are eluding to. We don’t want to be acused of racial profiling, BECAUSE THAT MAKES TOO MUCH SENSE!!!!!!!
    You are so hung up on ideologies that you are incabale of processing common sense.
    And Crumb, our military IS fighting for our liberty, freedom, and safety and the vast majority of them want to finish what they started. Plus, I never called you a coward, unless of course you are one of those idiots attacking our military and the recruiting centers.

    And as far as the Gore thing goes, it’s quite obvious that you would rather have a lying thieving fraud representing you.

  29. “And Crumb, our military IS fighting for our liberty, freedom, and safety and the vast majority of them want to finish what they started.”
    I didn’t know Saddam was a threat to American liberty.

  30. Jetff

    I oppose abortion AND the death penalty because unlike you, I have a consistent belief in life. But, on a more pragmatic note, do you know how much it costs to try a capital case to impose the death penalty? The average is 1.7 MILLION TAX DOLLARS PER CASE. In other words, it’s cheaper to leave them to rot than to kill them, because not only does the case cost almost 2 million, but they file appeals for more cases and in general sit on death row for several years anyway. As for your state, I can’t argue if I don’t know what state it is. You still won’t tell me, because you know that I’m from Tennessee, and that “country hick” bullshit won’t work on me. I live in the land of Moonpies and RC colas. As for protesting, this country was founded by protesters! Just because I don’t support an unjust war doesn’t mean that I don’t support the brave men and women in our armed forces. Indeed, I care about them so much that I want to bring them somewhere where they won’t be shot at for no reason. Get it through your head, I don’t support the war, I DO support our troops. You need to study up on southern democrats. That’s what I am. We tend to be christians, as we live in the bible belt, and we tend to oppose any measure that takes away human life unless it is the only measure. Anyway, you said you live in a state where “liberals” can get laws passed, so that tells me that you can’t be a real “country hick” like me. Understand that I at least, cannot be classified as liberal or conservative. It depends on the specific issue. Sometimes taxation is stupid, sometimes it’s great. It all depends on the time and place. Kennedy lowered taxes in 1960, and it helped. As far as the health care issue, I think the fix is simple. Remember in the 40’s and 50’s before medical insurance? Healthcare was cheaper without having to deal with the god-awful middle man known as the insurance company.

    Coninued……………….

  31. The only reason we don’t go back to that system is we’re afraid that it would wreck the economy because of all the lost jobs. As for corporations, I think that the ones who are willing to stay in the states should be regulated as little as possible. However, the ones that go to mexico like GM, or to China should have the shit taxed out of them. Hell, if I were in charge, I would write tax writeoffs to companies that kept their operations totally stateside. I would also make small business owners exempt from payroll taxes. Would that help you out any Jim? I’m a pragmatist . If lowering taxes is what will help I’m for it. If raising taxes will help than I’m for it, but I don’t think either answer is correct all the time.

  32. P.S. Jetff

    You do know that there are 1 billion muslims of all races? Not all middle eastern people are muslim, and not all muslims are terrorists. Not all muslims are middle eastern either. Stop being racist. By your logic we should have strip-searched every white christian male after Timothy Mcvey blew up the Oklahoma city building. There are terrorists of all races and religions all around the world. Don’t be such an idiot.

  33. Well Ingle here we go again.

    You make assumptions and put words in my mouth (so to speak), and you have huge holes in your argumnents. Let me try to address some if them.

    1) OK with taxing large corporations? It’s the freakin taxes and unions that give them no choice to move . The labor costs when unions are involved are astronomical. Yes, in the past unions were actually a good thing (for the most part), but now they are huge draw on our economy.

    2) Grow up! It doesn’t matter what state I’m from. I’m country boy. Get over it. You would think with my “Bush like” ineloquent writing you figure that out.

    3) I married a southern christian so once again you make more poor assumptions without facts. I also believe that if a person has murdered without remorse, in most cases they are no longer a person and therefore should be given the short route to meet their maker. The only reason capitol punsihment cases cost so much are because of the trial lawyers. Death row inmates should get one appeal. Would taht save some money?

    4) GET IT IN YOUR HEAD, I never said YOU didn’t support the troops. And I never said protest is bad. I said attacking our military is. Did I make one of your dumbass assumptions and say you did?

    5) I’m not a racist. I don’t hate muslims. Does my last post say anything about muslims? I do hate terrorists, and 99 percent of the terrorists that want to hurt YOU and me are young middle eastern men. Deal with it. Although I do have a problem with vast majority a muslims world wide that are not openly denouncing and trying to stop their fellows muslims from blowing up innocent women and children. Why is that?

    continued

  34. 6) Don’t give me that unjust war crap. Did we make a mistake by going in there. That is debatable. Despite the popular belief of the Bush hating kool-aid drinking idiots that Bush lied, the truth is that Saddam was the one that was lying about WMD’s. That is until he was under threat of attack, then his tune changed real fast. According to reports I’ve read Saddam was putting false info out regarding his WMD arsenal to keep surrounding countries in fear of him. The Clinton era intellegence services didn’t sort through that and are more to blame than Bush. PLUS, being the true christian that you claim, one would think you are happy that Saddam’s regime is no longer killing and raping people by the hundreds of thousands. Was he a direct threat to the US. Probably not. Did he need to be taken out, I think yes. The assination attempt on Bush the elder would have been enough for me to take him out.

    7) Sometimes taxation is good? That is debatable as well. Protestation in large part is what this country was founded on, protestation against taxation. And now we have double and triple taxation. Where does it end? Let’s see, we have the SS tax, then a income tax on that. We have sales taxes, then pile another tax on that depending on what you are buying. I don’t think gas and cigarette taxes are hurting the rich, but they sure do have an impact on the poor. Here again I could go on and on about it. Like I said, where does it end?

  35. 1) Ingle said that corporations that go overseas should be taxed, and that domestic operations should be unrestricted.
    2) If it doesn’t matter where you’re from, then don’t mention that you’re from a “country hick” state in the first place.
    3) I would like to hear a consistent criteria for what is and is not a person from you.
    4) Nobody in the United States is attacking the military. That’s happening in Afghanistan and Iraq.
    5) “I’m not a racist! Really! Now isn’t it awful suspicious that those Muslims aren’t denouncing terrorism?” “Muslim” isn’t a race anyway.
    6) Saddam lying and saying he has WMDs hen he does not means that he does? An impartial UN inspection finds nothing, and American inspections have found just as much? Beyond the non-existent WMD threat [Reagan, Bush Sr. and Rumsfeld gave Saddam those weapons in the first place], you can’t justify the Iraq war as a liberation from a mass murderer, because the “liberation” has already killed more than Saddam ever did.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
    Plus the infrastructure in Iraq is even worse off now than before, and nobody has any security at all.
    7)The founding fathers were protesting taxation without representation: they had no say in Parliament and no control over the taxes levied on them. They were not protesting taxation itself.

  36. I about fell out of my chair when I read this: “Last year, Miami Police Chief John Timoney authorized his patrol officers to carry AR-15s because of a rise in assault rifle use by criminals.

    “This is a national problem. Police agencies all over the U.S. are going to bigger weapons,” said Timoney, whose agency now has about 50 AR-15s and expects to get 150 more. He blames the 2004 expiration of the federal ban on assault weapons for the escalation of heavily armed violence.

    I would love for this anti-freedome sheriff to back up his statement with FACTS. Yes every day I hear assault weapons shoot out going on. The expiration of the Assault Weapons ban (Scary Black Rifle Ban) is what he blames the escalation of “heavily armed violence”? What the hell is this guy talking about. The only thing that changed since 2004 is that now you can get a damn bayonet lug on your scarry blake rifle. I haven’t read of a rash of bayonettings!!!!

    I hate public leaders who pop of with this kind of nonsense and then the sheeple just repeat…bah bahhaha..

  37. Sorry, here is the source: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,340748,00.html

    I can never quite get my head around why, in an age where weapons are more tightly controlled and regulated than ever, we now supposedly have more crime with these same weapons..

    Someone please explain that to me. Why Mr. Sheriff Timoney do we now have more crime and why do you blame it on the so-called assault weapons? Why was there not more crime in the decades before when these weapons were more freely available. It has something to do with society and NOT a particular type of weapon. Perhaps you should stay out of free Lexus vehicles and use logic and reason before you speak Mr. Sheriff. I suppose these evil black weapons are also responsible for your drug dealing son. (disclaimer- I wanted to try a gratuitous left-wing style smear statement- Hey.. It’s kinda fun when you don’t have to back up your comments!:))

  38. You know what this is a great time if any to show not only America but the world that we shall over come this great plague called racism. People forget that slavery in America was really longer then what many books say. Some say it was 400 to 500 hundred years but the fact is it lasted 670 years from the true time it started. Way before Christopher Columbus (who really didn’t find America) but anyway Europeans and Vikings that came before him already had enslaved Africans in America.

    Another thing that you people forget is in the early stage of Obama’s running he had to confront the Africans American voters that he was Black enough for what ever that means…..Maybe because he has a white mother…you got me. But he dealt with that for a good part of late 2007. I thought that he would mostly like not have a chance because many blacks thought that we were not ready for a black president or fear of him being killed if elected. One of his responds to that was… (If I m not black enough then let see if I can caught a cab in New York). Now ….that he concord that issue….. It flips sides.

    Now his other half is questing who he is. To me why is America going through this????? This man is not only black but white. Bi-racial is what he is but America more less labels him as black. How can a man be racist when he is from both races? He can’t…I believe he loves his mother and father the same and race. When this campaign began he made no distinction on race at all, like some for the former black campaign runners.

    This man never came at any of the candidates in a negative way…showing much respect for all. At first I was with Clinton, although I knew of Obama’s success I give Clinton the edge. But through the course of it all I saw something from her I never seen before. How she was playing the black votes as her cream of the crop and being so ruthless in trying to bring down Barrack the way she did. And when I compared the two by the way they we’re acting I swi

  39. You know what this is a great time if any to show not only America but the world that we shall over come this great plague called racism. People forget that slavery in America was really longer then what many books say. Some say it was 400 to 500 hundred years but the fact is it lasted 670 years from the true time it started. Way before Christopher Columbus (who really didn’t find America) but anyway Europeans and Vikings that came before him already had enslaved Africans in America.

    Another thing that you people forget is in the early stage of Obama’s running he had to confront the Africans American voters that he was Black enough for what ever that means…..Maybe because he has a white mother…you got me. But he dealt with that for a good part of late 2007. I thought that he would mostly like not have a chance because many blacks thought that we were not ready for a black president or fear of him being killed if elected. One of his responds to that was… (If I m not black enough then let see if I can caught a cab in New York). Now ….that he concord that issue….. It flips sides.

    Now his other half is questing who he is. To me why is America going through this????? This man is not only black but white. Bi-racial is what he is but America more less labels him as black. How can a man be racist when he is from both races? He can’t…I believe he loves his mother and father the same and race. When this campaign began he made no distinction on race at all, like some for the former black campaign runners.

    This man never came at any of the candidates in a negative way…showing much respect for all. At first I was with Clinton, although I knew of Obama’s success I give Clinton the edge. But through the course of it all I saw something from her I never seen before. How she was playing the black votes as her cream of the crop and being so ruthless in trying to bring down Barrack the way she did. And when I compared the two by the way they we’re acting I switched and will stand by him through the rest of the way.

    As an American soldier I like McCain for his valor, commitment and heroism as a POW. Plus I like his views on many topics. I just think in this time and age we need a new face for America and who would be better for that face then Barrack Obama? The times that are at hand he represent the Muti-Cultural socially we have here in America. #1 Black and white. #2 Christian with and Islamic name. #3 Mottos all about change. I believe that he can help being peace across the world more so then any other President ever.

    He can help with the problem in Kenya and other African nations. He is the step son of a Muslim nation where he went to school with Muslims so he can understand the Islamic ways of many Muslims that many Christians can’t. He’s can understand the poor people here in America because he lived it, He can relate to people with bad credit and people that struggle with student loans because he’s been there. He can relate to the rich because he is rich and he can relate to blacks and white or bi-racial and others because he is.

    So for people that saying he can’t handle America or debate are wrong. The very situation that he is under going right now shows that he can keep he composer and stay cool and professional. No other candidate can go through what he has because of race difference. Plus he didn’t run from it, he took it head on and he is right. Once America realize the real effect slavery have on African Americans and Africans Americans stop blaming whites for what their great grandparents or forefathers did, we can get on with protecting this Country we all so much love.

    It’s just like the Us Army that I serve in. I believe that we are the best well rounded people because we deal with people from all backgrounds. Ethnic, Religious, Sex, Culture etc. We may not agree all the time but we are all brothers and sisters in arms. Yes I’m Muslims but I’ll fight for my country alongside my Brothers and Sisters from many different faiths of the Armed Forces. And that’s what makes America great…that we disagree to agree. We may have different beliefs but we all hold something near and dear to our hearts and that’s the love for our great country United States of America.

  40. ahmadazfire,

    I share your sentiments about race, unfortunately, at his core Obama is a socialist.

    I can tolerate and even celebrate that he is black, I could tolerate or even ignore that he were Muslim (which he is not).

    What I cannot tolerate or celebrate or ignore are his policies which pit classes against each other and suggest the rich are at fault and need to do more.

    Obama is not the great unifier which the main stream media wants to suggest he is.

    He is an old time leftist even further out than Kerry or Clinton and perhaps even Edwards.

    The only shot he had at the Presidency was lost when Reverend Wright’s tapes were put on TV. The tapes don’t prove that Obama is a racist, what they prove is that he is an old time politician who embraced that community for political gain.

    His actions are contrary to his message of a new and different politician of change.

  41. P.S.

    Muslims aren’t are race, but Semite’s are a cacasian-ethnic group. I wonder if Jetff understands that Jews and Muslims are both part of that group? Ask your christian wife and she’ll tell you that according to the bible, Issac and Ishmael, who were brothers, are considered to be the fathers of Judaism and Islam respectivley. Also bear in mind that Zoroastrian’s, of whom I suspect you have never heard, are also Semite’s who live in India, although they are from Persia. As for your regards to southern christians, you need to read more carefully, I was referring to southern DEMOCRATS. Is your wife a southern democrat? My point was that things are not so clear cut as you think. You can throw around the word liberal all you want, and assume I’m an atheist in favor of abortion, but that simply isn’t the case. Anyway, you never answered my question about Timothy Mcveigh. Should we have searched all of the white christian males after the federal building was bombed? If you advocate searching people based on what ethnic group they’re in, your’re rasict. In order to stop terrorism, we need to put an end to the poverty and hopelessness that breeds it. Do people just wake up one day and start hating America? Learn to study the proximate cause. By the way, instead of “middle eastern” you could say Semite, as in anti-semetic, which is what YOU are. As for the rest of your posts refer to Crumbunist for retorts.
    And don’t forget that I LIVE in the south, and my mama’s Easter Sunday pie is pretty tasty right now. I’m more hick than you are, so watch out for the unsupported rhetoric. I think you should read a book called God’s Politics. The author addressess the problems of BOTH of our politicial parties in an unbiased manner.

  42. Hey Raul, I’m from the south! I own and like guns. I only have one right now, because times are tough, but it’s a good one. I have a Rem. 870 pump with an 18 1/2 inch barrel, a wolf one round mag extention, and a nice combat sight. No ghostrings for me. I don’t like’em. My ONLY thing about guns is, if you’ve been convicted of a violent crime you shouldn’t have a gun. If you’re legally insane you shouldn’t have a gun. If you’re not an adult you can’t BUY one. Otherwise, if you’re a law abiding citizen you should be able to own what you want. I used to have an SKS, which I loved dearly, but sigh…times are tough. I’m supposed to get a better job soon and if I do I’m gonna look for a Glock 23. My friend has one and I really like it.

  43. Hey ahmadazfire,

    Thank you for your service.

    You do make some compelling arguments for Obama. Personally I can’t support Obama, not because he is black, but because his as far left as you can go and has never seen a tax he didn’t like. Secondly, and I think what many people now have a problem with is his long time association with Jeramiah (spelling?) Wright. Most Americans don’t like America haters. Obama has now admitted sittng ther during Wright’s sermons for years listening to this that sewage. That shows bad judgement on two levels, that he sat there for years (and took his children there as well), and also that he did not tell the truth about it at first. Bad form and bad judgement buddy.

  44. Boy you got me good that time Crunbunist! OUCH!

    Ok, I did mistakenly write “large corporations” in the first sentence, but if you actually read and understood the whole paragraph you would’ve known what I meant.

    Never mentioned I said I was from a “county hick state”, I said I was a country boy. What I was basically saying is that I’m from a state that is turning into a flamin’ liberal tax first ask questions later state. Again, read and comprehend, that’s all I ask.

    No one in America is attacking the military? What do you call vandalizing recruitment centers? Accusing our military of killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqis isn’t attacking the military? Calling our military personnel “baby killers” isn’t attacking our military? Maybe you should try actually talking to some of them, it might be enlightening. I do. You and Rosie should get a room.

    Taxation without representation is still taxation, no matter how you want to slice it.

    I highly doubt that we gave nerve gas, or the workings to make nuclear weapons to Saddam.

    “I’m not a racist. I don’t hate Muslims.” Two different statements Crumb. Ingle told me to stop being a racist. I stated that I was not. Never said “Muslim” was a race either. Again, read and comprehend.

    And Ingle, yes you did refer to “Southern Democrats”, and in the next sentence you said they tend to be Christian. Sorry, my bad. Although I did answer your Timothy McVey question, read it again. I never accused you of being an atheist either. Where did that come from?

    “If you advocate searching people based on what ethnic group they’re in, your’re rasict.” Wrong again. I thought you said you were a pragmatist? Here is the reality of it, AGAIN. The vast majority of the terrorists that want to hurt you and me are young Middle Eastern “Muslim” men. That’s not racism, it’s fact. And they really don’t care if you are black, white, democrat, republican, male, female, or a even CHILD. Figure it out.

  45. And Ingle, I’m not anti-Semitic either ass pipe, I’m anti-terrorist. And yes I did know Jews and Muslims are both Semitic peoples, but unlike you I can differentiate between bad and good people regardless of their race or religion.

    I’m done with your poor assumptions, assertions, and insults. Same goes with your buddy Crumbunist.

  46. I think Obama did a good job addressing the race issue. Here’s the deal, how would you feel if, and I have seen it, you were pulled over (and more) by the police more often in predominately caucasion parts of town than others that did not look like you, if your mother or father grew up not being able to ride in the front of a bus or eat at certain restaurants or use particular bathrooms or drink from certain drinking fountains, if their mothers and fathers lived during a time when post cards depicting lynchings of blacks could be sent by mail, and their grandparents grew up when blacks were slaves? It is not that long of a time in the scheme of things and things do not change overnight. To ignore the black experience of racism is well, ignorant. That being said, I think Obama also addressed me, not being black and not being wealthy either, when he said that I don’t necessarily feel and rightfully don’t feel that I have received so many extra benefits simply by being a white male. After all, I did not have slaves. Both sides have points worth hearing.

    It boils down to being truthful, being informed of history, and being able to consider all sides. That being said, you are probably right because I don’t think enough people can do that. His candidacy is probably toast.

  47. Jetff:

    “country hick” and “country boy” are different ways of saying the same thing; I’m from the country.

    I do not call protests and vandalism attacks. I do not call slander [whether or not they are killing children, accidentally or intentionally] an attack. Troops don’t need moral support for the war they have been sent to fight. Many of them disagree with this war and tried to get out [ I did not say most]. Troops need the kind of support that Donald Rumsfeld coldly denied them: they need better armor, they need better equipment, and they need to get out before they are ruined, physically or mentally. Supporting an ideological war is not the same as supporting the troops, not at all.

    Don’t twist my words. You said that the founding fathers rebelled against taxes. I said that they rebelled against taxation without representation [not that this was their only issue]. Now, what does “Taxation without representation is still taxation” have to do with anything? I never questioned that. I said that you are wrong to cite the founding fathers, because they were fighting taxation without representation, not taxation with representation, which is what you’re fighting now.

    The United States government gave Saddam Hussein mustard gas to use against the Iranians, and turned a blind eye when he gassed the Kurds, because at least he was fighting America’ enemy.

    Justifying the racial profiling of middle eastern men because America’s current enemy is middle eastern terrorists is about as just as interning Japanese citizens without trial because America was fighting the Japanese.

  48. Dear Jetff ,

    OK it is fine , we believe you 99% of the terrorists are Muslims or of the Middle Eastern Race that is what you believe and not us , only if you were to open your eyes you will find out that there are more terrorists from other races than the Muslim or the Middle Eastern Races . Jetff have you ever given a thought why there are so many terrorists (for you not for us) in the Middle East and no where else , no you might have not , because you are very only good at finding faults and not reasoning out , Why the fault is ? it is because your country the USA and UK and crusader countries are always messing around in the Middle East since the last 40 years , staging so many assasinations , murders , bombings , killings , coups , civil wars , in Lebanon 2 Million people were killed because of the European invlovement , Palestinians have been reduced to wage labours in their own homeland , their land has been overtaken by the Jews because it is written in the religious scriptures that the Land belongs to the Jews and no matter which part of the World they come , Iraq is in ruins thanks to the US , UK crusader alliance , thousands have been killed in Iraq in the Two wars that were imposed on Iraq , still scores are being killed by the daily bombings engineered by the agents of death helped by the US , Afghanistan has been sent back to the dark ages just to hunt for 2 individuals , the US plays with peoples life so easily it does’nt have any regard for the Innocent women , children lifes . The Arab governments are all puppets of the US and UK , hence the people have no voices , just to raise their voices they resort to the Guns and destruction which is another gameplan of the US , they want to destroy the Middle East and later invade and capture it in the name of fightting terror .

    If You have any conscience wake and stop this game plan .

  49. Dear Tanvir

    Our discussion on terrorists was based on people being checked in our airports. I never said there are not terrorists of all race and religions. BUT, I will say it again, and there is no doubt in this, the vast majority of people (terrorists) trying to come into America and hurt Americans are Young Middle Eastern males. Look at it this way, since you beleive America wants to destroy the Middle East (which is completely wrong by the way), are you not more suspicious of Americans and than Middle Easterners? Common sense right? Believe me, I have have friends of Middle Eastern descent, I don’t hate them or their religion.
    And Tanvir, don’t you think Afghanistan was already in the dark ages under Taliban rule. If you don’t don’t you are misguided my friend.
    Another thing that is huge mistake is to think the If I read your post correctly, you thin the US wants to completely take over the Middle East. Look at history. We defeated Japan in WW2, they have their own country. We liberated Europe from the Nazi’s in WW2. I don’t think it’s called the United States of Europe. I could go on. I don’t know where yo uget your information from, but Middle Eastern states are not puppets of the US and UK. You say you have no voice so you have to revert to violence. Tanvir, that is what democracy is my friend. Giving the people a voice, and that my fiend is what the US and other counties are now trying to accomplish in Iraq. Democracy. And maybe, just maybe, if there were more true democracies in the Middle East there wouldn’t have to so much violence there.
    And yes for more than 40 years, more like hundreds of years, rmany counties, not just the US, have been intervening in Middle Eastern affairs, but I highly doubt that the US and UK have staged more assinations, murders, killings, coups, and civil wars than Middle Easterers themselves. It’s been going on there for thousands of years, long before there was a US or UK, and you know it. And if you don’t, you should.

  50. Dear Crumbunist

    My last response to you. Same goes for Ingle. How’s this for assumption, assertion, and insult. Warning, I’m going to come down to your level of discourse now.
    You are sanctimonius, narcissistic adolescents.
    You two should have a three way with Matt as I suspect you all have rainbow stickers on the back of your Prius’s.
    Which is probably a good thing because if you think about it, you won’t breed, and therefore our future generation gene pool will be rid of your seed.

  51. Crumb is a female and I am a male. Why wouldn’t we be able to breed? only because I have a girlfriend.

  52. Firs of all, the Middle East was pretty peaceful under the Ottoman Empire. Second, the US and the UK have caused enormous human suffering, directly and indirectly, since the dawn of time. Let me list but a few of the ways;

    Crusades
    Conquest of Ireland
    War of the Roses
    English Civil War
    Cromwell
    Transatlantic slave trade/plantations
    Anglo-Dutch War
    Genocide of the native Americans
    Seven Years’ War
    Conquest of India
    Violation of Indian treaties and more genocide
    Opium Wars
    The Great Game/Afghanistan as a battleground
    Mexican-American War
    US Civil War
    Division of Africa
    Brutal colonial suppression
    Apartheid
    Central American wars
    Latin American dictatorships
    Batista’s dictatorship
    African dictatorships
    Deposing democratic governments [i.e. Iran]
    Saddam’s dictatorship
    Supplying WMDs to Saddam, used in genocide
    Noriega’s dictatorship
    Gulf War II

    There are also things called puppet states; Look at the guests at Hamid Karzai’s swearing in, look at the government system the US installed in Afghanistan and Iraq, look at who has the real authority in those countries. The US has turned those countries into protectorates. Their governments exist because of US authority.

    Lastly; How many people come into the US intending to “destroy it”? How do you know how many there are? And how do you know the majority of them are muslim? There are lots of reasons to hate the US government; you don;t have to be involved in jihad to think the government has screwed the pooch. And before you blame “leftists” for wanting to abolish democracy, look up President Bush’s grandfather and his proud history in Washington.

    Finally, there’s an enormous difference between wanting something, and doing something about it. How many muslims have attacked the US since 9-11? How many non-muslims? According to your definition of “attack,” it seems like there are more white, secular, commie-pinko americans attacking the US than there are muslim extremists.

  53. Jim,

    Reagan was a great politician, a great leader, an intelligent statesman and he came at just the right time. Bush is a bumbling, incompetent puppet of his neoconservative advisors, a terrible statesman whose time somewhat undemocratically came at the worst possible moment when America needed a man of Reagan’s stature.

    And I think being held indefinitely in prison with no right to representation is rather more of an intrusion on personal liberty than being ‘fined for washing your car’.

    “You two should have a three way with Matt as I suspect you all have rainbow stickers on the back of your Prius’s.”

    I wondered how long the rabid homophobia would take to rise to the top…..wonder what my girlfriend would think? So you’re totally straight then jetff right? No secret rent boys hiding in the cupboard?

  54. A report from a site run by Muslims you say? Muslims opposed to extremists in their own religion? Well, I never!

  55. To Kool Aid and AI (artificial intelegence Ingle),
    Once again the educated idiots don’t get the point!
    Did you not read the first paragraph and comprehend.
    I was insulting you with absolutley no idea of your sexual orientation, hence the assumption and assertion part.
    Kind of like you guys do all the time with other topics.

  56. I can spell the word intelligence. You need to spell check, use proper sentence structure, and type complete thoughts. Otherwise you’re just wasting your time and ours. None of us have any idea what exactly you mean, so you made no point. You just made poorly structured ad hominem attacks. Crumbunist has used this term, and I’m quite sure that you don’t know what it means Jetff. Luckily for you however, I speak Latin, and I will tell you that the term literally means “to the man.” Let me help you understand what she means. Stop calling people names. Argue to the point, not the person. Otherwise it looks as though you have been defeated in the debate and have resorted to name calling.

  57. jetff,

    “I was insulting you with absolutley no idea of your sexual orientation, hence the assumption and assertion part.”

    If you are accusing me of being gay, I kind of assume that you think being gay is in some way morally and/or socially reprehensible…otherwise you would not have used it as an insult. Your homophobia derives not for your knowlege (or otherwise) of the person’s sexual orientation, but the implication of your insult.

    Crumbinist,

    I’m not sure what you’re trying to argue with your list of complex historical events. Please don’t resort to Chomsky-esque distortion to support your argument, it stands up better without it.

    Also all Jihadi terrorists are Muslims, not Christians or Buddhists for reasons I’m sure you can work out yourself. There’s no getting away from it though clearly jetff thinks that all Muslims must have long beards and be of Middle-Eastern origin which is clearly false.

    What really annoys me is that the Bush administration thinks we need a plethora of liberty-infringing legislation to deal with this rather than simple laws that existed in the first place.

  58. Matt:

    Before someone can say that “the vast majority of people coming into the US who want to hurt it are muslim” they have to prove that these people exist at all. I don’t know about you, but I haven’t seen many muslim terror attacks in the US since 9/11, nor were those terrorists fresh off the boat.

  59. Crumbinist,

    I guess we’ll never know how many terrorist plots have been foiled post-9/11. Obviously it’s in the Bush administration’s interest to bump up the figures but the reality is that we just don’t know. All I’d say is that the primary terrorist threat at the moment is from Islamist extremists. How big that threat actually is is near impossible to determine.

  60. Matt,

    You said:
    “If you are accusing me of being gay, I kind of assume that you think being gay is in some way morally and/or socially reprehensible…otherwise you would not have used it as an insult.”
    You are correct, I DO think being gay is morally wrong. Thats my opinion. Sorry. I have a gay sister, love her to bits, but I do not and can not agree with her lifestyle. If god, and for those who don’t believe in god, mother nature, meant to have gays we would be unisex. Call me homophobic, or what ever you want. I don’t really care.
    And for the last time, I was trying to make a point, more so for Crumb and Ingle, that I was using name calling, accusations, assumptions, etc, as they do all the time, without having any facts.
    And if you guys want some proof on what the ilsaists really thinl of America, and in specifi the “west” please see this link:
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,351242,00.html

    I know, you probably won’t believe it because the story is from FoxNews. Unfortunatley there are very few other news outlets that actually don’t have a liberal slant to EVERYTHING they do, and therefore don’t report a lot of thing that they should.

  61. Name one major news outlet that isn’t owned by a colossal conservative corporation and I’ll believe the media has an intense liberal bias.

  62. Also not everyone is Christian and not everyone follows archaic, arbitrary Christian morality.

  63. Once again, I have no idea what you are saying at the end of your rant because you can’t spell. Slow down, take your time, and complete your thought Jetff. You just wasted your time and mine. Type complete sentences as well.

  64. Jetff
    “I have a gay sister, love her to bits, but I do not and can not agree with her lifestyle”
    “If god, and for those who don’t believe in god, mother nature, meant to have gays we would be unisex”

    But it’s not a ‘lifestyle’ is it? Or it’s only a lifestyle in the sense that there is a hetrosexual ‘lifestyle’. Also there is no such thing as an ‘intended’ outcome in nature.

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